Beyond The Checklist

014 Embracing Love and Peace in a Journey with a Gay Ex-Husband with Jessica Frew


Darla: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Spiritually Minded Women podcast. This is Darla and I’m so happy to be here with you today. I actually have a guest today after a whole season of solo episodes, I am really excited that in season five, I am back to doing some interviews. I’m still going to be doing some solo episodes as well. And so, if you’re new, I just want to tell you a little bit about what this podcast is about. I am really passionate about sharing the message that we are all on a covenant path. We all want to get back to our Heavenly Parents and there are checkpoints which are covenants, that we all have to make, but there are no checklists. And so, I really just want you to know that wherever you’re at in your journey, that you have a Savior beside you, who will help you, and there’s no mold that you have to fit in. There are no boxes that you have to check, to be a righteous Latter-day Saint woman. You can just do it the way that God tells you to do it.

And so that is my message. And I’m really excited to be able to bring people onto the podcast this season to have them share their journey. Because I think when we hear each other stories, it helps us to know that we’re not alone and we learn from each other. And that’s what I’m all about. And I’m really excited today to welcome my guest, Jessica Frew. And so, Jessica, thank you so much for being here. 

Jessica: [00:01:35] Thanks for having me super excited to chat with you. 

Darla: [00:01:38] I am so excited to have you, why don’t we just start off by you introducing yourself and telling everybody a little bit about you? 

Jessica: [00:01:45] Yeah. I was listening to your intro and I was like, I fit into this example of not fitting that mold. Right?

Darla: [00:01:52] Don’t we all kind of, I mean, there’s no normal, right? 

Jessica: [00:01:56] Yes, I feel like the more we say that there’s a mold, like there is no mold, but we have, we have grown up thinking that, right? We’ve grown up feeling that. So, it’s so important to start breaking free of that mindset. My name is Jessica Frew. I am a mom, stepmom, wife, ex-wife, and a bold action taker. I love all things active. I am a member of the church and, I actually host my own podcast with my husband and my ex-husband called husband-in-law. And I help women change their mindset so that they can live a bold life. So I really help women create boundaries to protect their sense of self and so that they can take bold action in their lives.

Darla: [00:02:35] Okay. I love that being bold. That is, that is such a great message. And I have listened to your podcast and it’s really great. I really love what you and your husband and your ex-husband share. So, it’s a little bit unconventional, right? It’s not exactly what we think. So, tell us about this journey of how you got to, you’re doing a podcast with your ex-husband and your husband, and you all get along and you’re co-parenting and all this. Tell me how that all came about. 

Jessica: [00:03:00] Yeah. I was married to my first husband for about seven years, almost exactly seven years. And when we were married, he had told me right before we got married, that he had struggled with pornography. And that, that was an ongoing issue and was very honest with me about that. And we had a good conversation and we continued forward in our marriage. And then about a year or so into the marriage, he came to terms with the fact he was gay. I figured that out about six months in, when I found a bunch of gay pornography on our computer, but he wasn’t willing to admit that to himself. And so about a year and a half into our marriage, he came out to me and we, you know, evaluated at that point, what does this mean for us? Do we continue forward? Do we stay married? Like, what do we want individually? And how does that work together? And we both wanted to stay married. We were happy. We had so much fun together and we had a great marriage.

And so, we continued forward. We had a daughter together about five years into our marriage and then at around six and a half years, Steve ended up having an affair and we stayed together after that, but it was just really hard, and we didn’t know. Well, he wasn’t attracted to me anymore and that was like a devastating blow for me. And although he was honest with me about it, we, we tried to work through it and we just couldn’t make it work. So, we ended up getting divorced. And at that moment I was like, okay. You’re hit with all these fears, right? Like you don’t want to get divorced. You never get married of course, planning to get divorced. And so I was like, all right, I’m here. This is my reality. And now what, what do I want out of this now? Like how do I want this to look for the rest of my life? Because I have to rethink what I thought my life would be. We talked a lot about it. And I ultimately came to the fact that what I wanted was to have a good relationship with Steve, for my daughter.

Like I didn’t want her to be at her wedding and feel tension and nervousness because her parents are in the same room or at her graduation or her birthdays or any of those things. I just wanted her to know that we both loved her, and we loved her so much that we could be together still in the same room and work together.

And so that was really the plan we established. Right? He now lives a very different life than I do. I am still active in the church, obviously. And he is not, he is openly gay, which I’m happy for him that he has embraced that side of himself. And does lots of things I don’t agree with, but that’s all right. And not just, not because he’s gay. Those are the things I don’t agree with, but other things. Anyways, I want to make that clear. But we’ve continued to be able to have this really great relationship where we love and support each other. And then as I, when I met my husband, I realized he could fit into this. And actually, he and Steve. So, my ex-husband is Steve. My husband is Matt. They actually became friends before I met Matt, my current husband. So, they had been friends. And so, when I started dating Matt, it was kind of an easier transition because they knew they loved and respected each other and that love and respect has grown. 

And it’s funny to me because they do honestly, say that they love each other. Like they will openly admit like, yes, I care about this person that much. And so, we realized as we talk to people about our situation and all of these things that, that people really resonated with it because it brought hope, right? It brought this new way of thinking about first of all, your relationship, with an ex or with anybody quite honestly, because this shouldn’t work. By every sense of the word, we shouldn’t be friends. And then secondly, it gets you thinking about, well, how do I love people who believe differently? Like how, how can I show love to those that, that don’t believe the same as I do? And I mean, it, It’s to the point. I mean, Steve’s at my house once a week for family dinner and all of those things like we’re that close. We have a pool, he’s here in the summer hanging out at our pool.  And Matt and Steve actually work together now, Steve or Matt owns his own business, and he is hired on Steve to work for him.

So, it’s really kind of crazy and it isn’t for everybody. And we understand that like with Matt’s ex we had the other extreme. And where we can’t, we, we have to have very strict boundaries and very, firm rules in how we interact and engage for, for the sake of the children so that they know what to expect when we’re getting together and all of those things. But so, what we encourage people is that we want you to start thinking about your life and relationships in a new way that works for you, because you can create what you want and how you want it to look. And so it really gets people thinking about their relationships in a new way. So that’s kind of, that’s why we started the podcast. We had this story that we knew resonated with people, and we wanted to be able to share that we wanted to help people feel hope and to feel more love for those around them. 

Darla: [00:07:38] I think you are giving so much hope, but I want to back up a little bit because you’re telling this story and you’re like, yeah, we just decided to coparent, and everything was great. I’m sure that there were struggles in there. I’m assuming. So, take me back to those initial years when you know, you’re, finding pornography. And you realize that your husband’s gay and what did those conversations look like? Like the first time he came to you and told you what was going through your mind, what was happening for you?

Jessica: [00:08:03] So I, the first time that he told me about the pornography, it was literally three days before we got married. He was like, Hey, I need to talk to you. I want to be honest with you going into our marriage. And so, for me, that really softened my heart towards him in that moment. And I think enabled me to show up and have that conversation in a, in a way different than differently than I would have if it was like, I just found it without him telling me, of course, like here he is being honest with me. And, and creating this open dialogue about it. And so, I and I watched as he was talking to me and I, I wanted to take in what he was putting out there. And so, I really just listened for quite a bit of it. And, he was, you know, I could tell that he carried so much shame around this, that he was, so hesitant to tell me, so scared because he didn’t want to lose me. He loved me. And so, for me, it really, as I just listened, I realized that, okay, this man already carries so much shame around this. He’s already struggling so much. I can’t, I can’t put more on him. Like, yes, I can talk about my feelings around it. And yes, I feel like now I can express things when, when I stumbled upon the gay pornography six months later. But at least like, I want him to be able to have these conversations with me. And so, I knew in that moment and I, I truly believe this was a gift I was given that this first conversation I was able to not make it about me and about, well, am I not enough? Or am I not pretty enough? And these are all those real things that happen to us when we find out that our spouse or partner or whoever is looking at pornography. It’s a natural reaction, right, to start comparing ourself to whatever they’re watching. And we can’t like, it’s, it’s a fantasy. It’s not real, but it’s such a natural reaction to go there. And I’m so grateful that I didn’t have that reaction because I think it’s saved me and saved us when we then had to have the conversation about the gay pornography I found. And that is not to say that it was easy to take or that it didn’t make me question whether I wanted to still get married. I definitely did a lot of praying and a lot of fasting. And I still just felt at peace about marrying him. And it was interesting when we went to the temple, the sealer, after we were sealed, said some very specific things to me while I was still at the altar in the temple, that to everybody else just sounded like this nice dialogue. And to me, it was very direct messages and the answers to my prayers. And so, that really took me through a lot of our marriage of knowing that I was in the right place. I was doing the right thing, no matter what happened in my marriage, I was put here for a reason. So then when I found the gay pornography, Steve was at work, we were living across the country in Maryland. And, we had just moved there. We had nothing, we were in college and we were just there for the summer. And I remember I was getting on the computer to find something and then gay pornography just started popping up because that’s what it does. When you start looking at it online, it just keeps coming. I remember just lying there bawling on the floor. Cause I was like on the floor, on my stomach. I don’t know why. And just bawling that okay. I, I now had another issue to deal with. Like this isn’t he was honest with me, about the pornography, but this is like not what I expected. Right? I wasn’t expecting to find gay pornography. And as soon as he came home that night from work, he knew what had happened. Like he could just tell that I wasn’t okay. And therefore, he knew why. And, we had another conversation about it and he’s like, Oh no, I’m not gay. I’m not gay. I just grew up thinking that if I didn’t look at women, it was less like I was, I was still showing respect for women. It wasn’t as bad as if I was looking at, women naked and doing these things. It was just better that I was looking at men and that’s how he was justifying and telling himself that he wasn’t gay. He was in complete denial. And then when he came to terms with it, there was a whole other conversation of, okay. So now what does this look like? I went to Deseret Book and bought all of the books that were available at the time about mixed orientation marriages and gay members of the church. And just, started reading for like three weeks straight. I remember just reading and he was gone for three weeks. We were in the middle of a move and he had already moved, and I was still like taking care of things. And I remember just, going through those as well. And just bawling because I knew this was, divorce was probably a reality in my life. Like it was a good possibility that one day we would end up divorced. And if we didn’t, it was still a very real possibility that he would have an affair, that that would be part of our story. And just trying to process that in a moment of, okay, what, what do I do for me at this point? How do I, do I stay? Do I go? What feels right for me? And again, lots of prayers and all that, but it was just a long journey.

Darla: [00:12:46] Yeah. I’m thinking what if there’s someone out there who has faced a similar situation as you, whether it be, infidelity or a husband coming out to them or pornography, there’s lots of parts of your story that I’m sure people can relate to. And maybe they didn’t handle it in the right way. What would you tell them to give them hope that it’s okay? You can come back from this. You can learn and grow from this experience. What do you say to those people? 

Jessica: [00:13:12] Here’s the deal where none of us do it perfectly. Right?

Darla: [00:13:14] Right. 

Jessica: [00:13:14] I made so many mistakes along the way and how I said things, but you can always go back and just acknowledge those mistakes, like take ownership of them because the more I said, I would go to Steve and I’d be like, Hey, I am so sorry that I did this or said this that way. Like, I can see how that might have made you feel worse or it might have added to your pain. And that was not my intention. I was just trying to express myself, or whatever it is that’s happened, like taking ownership of those and acknowledging them really opens that door. It keeps that door open so that they, they’re not as scared to come back to you. And it took us a lot of years to be able to have an ongoing conversation about where Steve was at and how he was feeling. I would say probably a good five years into our marriage, so right around the time we had our daughter was when he really started feeling comfortable in telling me things on a regular basis or at least that I knew he was going to open up to me like soon. Because I could tell when he was struggling, I could tell when he was having issues. And, when the pornography was hard for him to abstain from, and all of those things, it was obvious to me because I knew him so well, but I knew that he would come to me when he felt like the time was right. And I also knew that if I said, Hey, Steve, I can tell something’s going on and I’m not okay. Like, I need you to open up to me soon and tell me what’s going on just so that I know. He would come around. And so, I feel like that really opens the door of just taking ownership of your side of your part. Even though you want to say, well, they’re doing this, and they’ve got these things and they might seem so much bigger. And I, that is a real feeling. And I understand that, but also seeing that okay, these are the things that I can say, Hey, I, I didn’t do this right. And I hope that you will forgive me for that and understand that I want to do better so that I can continue to have this conversation with you.

Darla: [00:15:05] It sounds like a lot of it was being humble, humility, like saying I have some ownership in this and some responsibility and I can take that. And then, your whole message is to be bold and to love boldly and love really ties in so much to that. So, I can see how you and Steve are kind of working through things and you know, you are trying to have that love for him. How did you deal with people outside of your relationship and their perceptions and what was going on? 

Jessica: [00:15:32] You know, nobody knew. We, it wasn’t until about a year before we got divorced, so, six years into our marriage, that Steve told his mom that he was gay. And she was the only person in our family that knew at that time, he also told my parents about the pornography, but he wasn’t comfortable telling them that he was gay. So, they, at that point also knew about the pornography. And then, at that point we were also living in, we were living in Colorado Springs at the time, and we had been going to support groups. So at least I had that, like I had this group of women that I got to, that were going through something similar, at least the pornography side of things. And then he was going to a lot of support groups that also helped him kind of process where he was at and what he was dealing with. But it was interesting because like nobody knew outside of that, there was a couple that went to those groups with us that were also friends from our ward and they, they knew everything. And so, it was nice to have friends that knew, but. It was, it was really interesting to carry that. Right? But I do highly recommend those support groups to anybody who’s going through those experiences, because it does give you a safe place somewhere where you can say the things you want to say, but also have that stay confidential and private so that you don’t feel like you’re throwing your spouse out to, you’re airing their dirty laundry to friends and family. And while some of that is okay, if your spouse is okay with it, there’s still like this fine line of having support and also supporting your spouse. And I think everybody has to figure that out on their own, like what that looks like for you, but I really wanted Steve to be able to trust me. And so, I made it a point to not share unless, I talked to him about it and he was always, really good about it. If I said, Hey, I really need to, I would really like to talk to this person about the pornography, just because I feel like maybe they could use some support as well. And every time they needed that as well. And he would say, yeah, that’s fine. Thanks for asking me beforehand. But I think there was just that respect of who knew and who didn’t, but most people did not know he was gay. We had just a teeny tiny handful of people that knew he was gay. So, so we didn’t have to deal with those outside opinions, which in some ways made it easier to make the decisions that worked for us, like to show up how we wanted to show up.

Darla: [00:17:47] So it sounds like you had the support system through the groups that you were a part of, but you also had time to deal with it, privately on your own before it was, totally public knowledge out there. So, how old is your daughter now? 

Jessica: [00:18:01] She’s 11. 

Darla: [00:18:02] She’s 11. Okay. So, let’s talk about this. I’m imagining as a mother how do you have those conversations? How do you navigate that? Coming home with their friends saying something or, what does that look like? 

Jessica: [00:18:13] It’s funny that the talks that we need to have are usually from church, of course, of like something said in her primary class, and now she’s in young women’s, which blows my mind. But something said that then she’s like, okay, uh, I don’t know how this sits right for me because my dad, and actually the gay part of it hasn’t really been brought up much. I’m assuming probably a little bit more things will come up in young womens. But like drinking alcohol was one that she came home with one day. She said, mom, and she, I could tell she wasn’t okay. And I said, Hey, what? What’s up? Like, she’s like, Oh, well, we had this lesson in church. And my primary teacher said that people who drink alcohol are bad. They’re bad people. And this was probably like three, four years ago. I don’t know. She was littleish. She still is little, but, and I said, okay, well, is that really what your teacher said? Like, did she say that those people are bad? And she’s like, well, I guess, I guess she didn’t say that. And I said, is that just how you felt like that’s what you took from the lesson? She’s like, yeah. And I said, Penny, I guarantee that this teacher that taught this lesson, has somebody in their life that they love and think the world of who drinks alcohol. And I guarantee all of those other kids in your class are the same. And that does not mean that somebody is a bad person because they drink alcohol. It’s just different than what we believe. And there’s reasons we believe in not drinking alcohol and that’s, you know, to, keep your body healthy and strong and to keep it, you know, your mind clear and, and all these different things. These are why we don’t do it. But if somebody decides to that’s, that’s their decision and that’s okay. Like we don’t have to, we can still love them. We still get this opportunity to love them. And I said, what are all of these good things about your dad? Like, tell me some great things about your dad. And I said, these are the things that matter. Like, these are the things that are important right here are the, the ideas, like this is who your dad is. Not him drinking alcohol. And while yes, I hope he’s safe about it. And, and he’s aware of when he does it when you’re around him. Like he’s very careful. And so that’s, what’s important. And so, we’d had conversations like that, and then we’ve also had conversations about, I’ve told her, like this is going to be an issue someday. Somebody is going to say something in or out of church about your dad being gay. And I want you to be prepared for that and you can do what you want with that. You can speak up and say something, you can remain silent and just walk away, like whatever that looks like for you, but it will happen. Somebody will be mean to you, or somebody will say something that you will, might be offended by, but you have that choice of how you, how you deal with that. 

Darla: [00:20:52] Yeah. I love that you’re having those conversations and, and also that you’re helping her think through what it means for her, and not necessarily that, you know all the answers, but you’re letting her discover that for herself.

Jessica: [00:21:05] Yeah. Yeah. And that’s just so important because she is going to have a lot of hard questions and I want her to decide, like, what does this look like for you? And where do you feel comfortable? Because I’m not gonna push you to believe as I believe because you are in this situation. And I, I never want her to feel like, she shouldn’t love her father. He is a great man. He’s a good dad and I want her to have a good relationship with him. So, it’s an interesting dynamic. 

Darla: [00:21:30] So sometimes things don’t work out the way that we imagine. And that’s your story and what you’re sharing. What would you say to someone who had their covenant path all planned out and it’s just not working out? What would you say to them? 

Jessica: [00:21:44] First and foremost, I always encourage people, especially in the church streamer. Okay. Listen, you, you’re doing your best, right? Like we’re all doing our best. I firmly believe that that how you are showing up to life is your best and enough. And because of that, because you’ve made different covenants, you are promised certain things in return, right? Like just as, you’re trying to keep the covenant, you’re promised certain things, even if you’re not keeping it perfectly. And so, I think there’s in that we believe that there is a plan for us here on Earth, that there is a plan for how we’re supposed to go through this life so that we can learn the things that we need to learn. And so that we can learn to love. And I firmly believe that most of what we go through is so that we can learn to love ourselves and other people in a more genuine, real way, just as Christ loves us. And as Heavenly Father loves us and loves his other children. And so, I think when you can understand that you are enough as you are, you’re doing your best and there’s a plan for you and really just put your faith in that plan, then you, you can continue forward in faith. And I remember, one of the things when Steve and I got divorced, I remember thinking, what is my fear right now? What is my fear that I’m feeling? And how can I change the story around it and, and have more faith? Basically, because that’s, you know, that’s what I believe is we replace fear with faith. And so, I remember I was sitting one day, Steve and I had been separated. We were in the process of getting a divorce and it’s a really weird story, but we ended up in a hotel room. It’s Steve and I and Penny. And Steve and Penny are, are taking naps and I’m sitting there reading some books and I remember thinking about this fear and my fear was for Penny, like, how does this look for Penny? How does this look for my daughter? Like, that’s, that’s the main concern of mine going through a divorce is I know I will be okay. I’m strong. How does this look for my daughter? And I really just remember this feeling of peace coming over me and feeling like, everything is going to be okay. Penny is going to be fine. She’s going to be well-rounded; she’s going to be stronger because of this. And she’s going to be able to help so many people because of her experiences. And just trusting in that moment, that feeling and so much so that here I am, nine years later after our divorce and still just latch on to that feeling sometimes of, no, I, I was given this peace. I was given these feelings and I’m going to trust them. I was given the feeling that I was doing the right thing when I married Steve. Like, there is no doubt in my mind. So, I am going to trust Heavenly Father that I’m, that I’m heading the right direction, that this is going to be okay. And just lean into that of opening yourself up to seeing, okay, how is this going to look for me now? Because it’s not what I expected and rarely is life, what we expected. So now how can I see this in a new way? What is it? And know yourself enough that, you know, what it is you want out of that. So, yeah, my marriage ended, but what do I want out of my relationship with Steve? Like what is the most important thing for me in that relationship? And it’s helping my daughter, right? Making sure that she has this. And so therefore, I need to adjust my relationship with Steve to be able to have that. So, I really believe that you just latch onto those promptings that you receive and the things that, you know, you were continuing forward. And if you did something where you thought, Oh, I really shouldn’t be doing this, and you did it anyways. That’s okay. You can figure that out now. Like trust yourself now, trust that understanding in you, because obviously you can identify that, that what you did in the beginning, didn’t feel right to you. So now, move forward in a way that does feel right to you and act on that, be bold in that, and that’s where I always say be bold. That’s where the bold action comes in. Right? And you said something about humility and I’m like, they go hand in hand because it takes humility to be teachable. And to hear those promptings and, and those desires of your heart, you have to be humble. And then you have to be bold enough to follow through on them afterwards, because it’s not going to be easy and people are going to say things and it doesn’t matter. It doesn’t matter. All that matters is what you know is right. And what Heavenly Father thinks of what you are doing. 

Darla: [00:25:59] Okay. I love this, love this, because we’ve heard a lot from President Nelson lately telling us to figure out how we hear him. If there was only one way to hear him, would he be asking us to figure it out for ourselves? No. 

Jessica: [00:26:12] Exactly. 

Darla: And I think that what you just shared just illustrates that so perfectly that we have to know how he speaks to us and then we have to trust, and we have to act on that. That’s the word I use a lot is act. We have to act on it. You, you know, you’re saying, be bold about it. I totally agree, because we just have to know that He’s going to come to us in a way that makes sense to us. And it may not make sense to my neighbor or my sister or my best friend or the person that sits across from me in Relief Society. And that’s okay. 

Yeah. Embrace that and know that this is your journey, and he is going to be there. He is going to help you. I just love that. So good. 

Jessica: I have this quote written down. It’s on my computer so I can see it right now. And it’s not a quote, it’s just something that came to me the other day when I was doing my scripture study. And I thought, and really, because we’re in Doctrine and Covenants right now, and we’re hearing about all these people who like made huge mistakes along the way. Right? Like they all just, kept fumbling and that’s real life. That’s, what’s beautiful. I think about reading Doctrine and Covenants and about that, those first people as we expected them to be perfect, but they weren’t. And so, the thought that I had is God, isn’t looking for perfect people to do his work because none of us are, but he’s looking for people who are willing to take action and to take action when he needs it. Like you look at Martin Harris and he took the action right then where, you know, he, he dropped the ball in so many ways down the road, but he did what he needed to do in the moment so that Joseph could continue forward so that Joseph could, could continue for the work. And it was like this give and take. And then all Oliver Cowdery shows up to take his place. And then, you know, like it just keeps going because those people were willing to act in that moment. And so that really is true. You have to know how you hear him, how he speaks to you. And then just take that action and trust that you’re worthy to do that. He’s putting trust in you. So, trust yourself. 

Darla: [00:28:05] Oh, I totally agree. And I have been loving that. I was describing to someone the other day what the Doctrine and Covenants is to me and it, to me, it’s just, it’s, God’s dealing with people who were imperfect, who still got to be part of his work. And so that’s all of us. So, it’s such great lessons that we can learn from those people. But I think it’s really important to point out that the personal revelation isn’t about being perfect to get that personal revelation. Because if it was like, if, if sin keeps you from hearing the Holy Ghost, then none of us would ever have the Holy Ghost.

Jessica: [00:28:36] Exactly. 

Darla: [00:28:37] We’re all sinning. So, I love that you’re making that point and that we don’t have to be perfect and that we can trust that when we hear something from God, it’s right. And we can just move forward and keep going and keep acting and being bold, like this is so great. I love that. So, I do have one final question for you, Jessica. This has been so wonderful. I’ve loved chatting with you and hearing your story and how you’re helping other people. But the, but the final question I wanted to ask you is how have you seen the Savior with you on your journey on the covenant path? 

Jessica: [00:29:07] You know, I’ve seen him so many times. And so often it is just the peace that I receive those, like, I’ve talked about a couple of times, just this peace in hard times and feeling love for myself in those hard times of knowing, okay. It’s okay. I’m still okay. I’m still of worth, and trusting that, but there’s just been so much where I’m like, I should not feel this peace right now, but yeah, I am. I’m flooded with peace because I know that I’m, I’m acting on these promptings I’m receiving, and while I’m not doing it perfectly, I’m not acting on them perfectly. Sometimes it takes me like a few times, you know, getting hit in the head with them to finally take that action. But it’s there. And the peace that I receive for me is one of the greatest gifts I could, I could have in life to be able to feel that peace because with that peace comes joy and happiness and, and a desire to keep going and to do more. And, so I really, I, I just latch onto the peace. And so, when I feel that I know that I’m doing okay, it’s going to be okay. It’s not going to be perfect, but it’s going to be okay and it’s going to be enough. And then there are so many little details in my life that have just worked out that I just think.

And I, I have most of them written down of little things that I’m like, there’s no way this could have worked out unless there was a plan for me, unless there was a divine being who was so aware of me, that they put these things in place. And, when I’m struggling, when times are hard, I remember those things and it helps my faith, to remember in this moment now. Okay. I can keep going because I know it’s going to be okay. I’m going to be given, these little, teeny things that work out for me that helped me to get to where I need to be. 

Darla: [00:30:51] I love that. That is a beautiful message. Peace, the Savior is definitely the one who brings us peace. Jessica, where can people find you? If they want to hear more, listen to your podcast, where can they go to find you? 

Jessica: [00:31:02] Yeah, so our podcast is on all podcasting platforms. It’s called Husband-in-Law. That is what my husband and ex-husband referred to each other as. And we are also on Instagram. We’re very active there. I do have a Facebook group called the Bold Action Takers. For those of you who are interested in taking some bold action, and those are really the three best places to find us. 

Darla: [00:31:22] Okay well great, and we’ll put all that in the show notes as well so people can go and find out more from you. Thank you so much for being here. 

Jessica: [00:31:28] Thank you.  

Darla: [00:31:29] I hoped you enjoyed the podcast. And if you did, please share it with a friend. I would love it if you would leave a review and rate it on Apple podcasts. This actually helps more women find the podcast and embrace their own journey on the covenant path. To find more ways to be a part of the spiritually minded women community, head over to spirituallymindedwomen[dot]com. For more inspiration, follow along on Instagram @spirituallymindedwomen. Have an amazing day.

I’m cheering you on in your journey.